[u-u] Keyboards...

Thu Oct 12 21:01:18 EDT 2017

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Giles Orr <gilesorr at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 12 October 2017 at 12:59, Colin McGregor <colin.mc151 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a follow-up on the question I raised at last evening's meeting,
>> both to get feedback from a wider audience and to provide links for those
>> who might of been interested in the topic...
>>
>> ErgoDox and Dactyl keyboards, does anyone here have any experience with
>> either? I am currently using a Microsoft Natural keyboard on my "main" home
>> computer, ugly but very comfortable to type on, so conditionally
>> recommended. The ErdoDox and Dactyl keyboards both look even uglier than
>> the Microsoft, but are they even more comfortable?
>>
>> There are open source plans for both the ErgoDox and Dactyl keyboards
>> where all the plastic parts are (in some cases just) inside the limits of
>> what my 3D printer can print. Further the idea of a near infinitely
>> customizable keyboard, the colour of the parts can be decided by the
>> filament used for the 3D printer so say green keys in a blue case is an
>> (ugly) option, the keyboard controller is a little Arduino compatible
>> controller with open source ( http://qmk.fm/ ), so qwerty or Dovark or
>> ... layout can be chosen, and the keys are Cherry MX switches or compatible
>> so pressure need to press a key or if the key makes a click noise is
>> selectable. The keyboard is thus a "forever" keyboard, as any part that
>> fails can be replaced without tossing the whole keyboard, which has a
>> strong appeal. But obviously there is no point moving forward with
>> something like this if it is uncomfortable to type on. Anyone know? Thanks.
>>
>> Here are links to a Dactyl and an ErgoDox keyboard 3D printer files:
>>
>> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2535256
>>
>> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2523675
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>
> I'm embarrassed to admit that I own something like 15 keyboards.  However,
> I'm still willing to say it to point out that I've tried a few ...
>
> My favourite keyboard (I've bought three of these so far, at $400+ each! I
> mean, you have to have one for work as well as home, and I need a backup
> ...) is the Kinesis Advantage(/Advantage 2).  On two of them I've replaced
> the Cherry Brown keyswitches with Cherry Blues.  Because of the dish shape
> of the keys it takes about a month to get used to, but once you do it's
> possibly the most comfortable keyboard ever made.  (If you're a gamer
> though, the lack of inverted-T cursor keys is appalling ... just saying.)
> If I had to go with a "standard" keyboard, I favour the IBM Model M or the
> seven year old short Cooler Master mechanical with Cherry Blues.  (The
> "Natural" is better than the straight keyboards, but the '6' is on the
> wrong hand and it doesn't have mechanical switches ...)
>
> The Ergodox is essentially the Advantage split in half and flattened.  I
> would recommend against it for a couple reasons: a good friend of mine who
> is an electronics tech said their circuit boards were perhaps the worst
> board work he'd ever seen in his life.  Another friend built an Ergodox and
> loaned it to me for a week: it felt very, very awkward, stretching when you
> shouldn't be and no way to get your hands comfortable.
>

This is the sort of feedback I was hoping for, thanks. I should point out
though that the ErgoDox 3D printer files that I posted use point-to-point
wiring, NOT a PCB. All the PCB based ErgoDox 3D printer files I've seen so
far have been too big for my printer. The point-to-point case is JUST small
enough (by a few mm) to be handled by my printer, but the wiring looks like
it would be ... an interesting challenge...

> I wasn't aware of the Dactyl - thanks for pointing it out.  Although I'm a
> bit leery as it's an Ergodox variant.  It seems even more closely related
> to the Advantage (but no F-keys).  I would highly recommend you see if you
> can find one to try before you start coughing up the couple hundred dollars
> (or more - I haven't looked into pricing) required to buy the parts.  And
> don't forget you almost certainly have to assemble it yourself (and it
> makes Ergodox assembly look easy).
>

I've done a little looking at prices, 92 Gateron MX blue keys can be had
for under $40 Cdn. from one of the usual suspects in China (I trust folks
know the sort, okay quality products, at excellent prices with slow (8+
week) delivery times), throw in a low-end Arduino compatible (under $20), a
spool of ABS 3D printer plastic ($30), and some misc. parts / connectors.
Bottom line, less than $150 one could have an ErgoDox or a Dactyl keyboard,
but I am not willing to drop even that many $$ and the ... significant ...
amount of time it would take to assemble one of these without some
confidence it would work better than a Microsoft Natural Keyboard...

> If you're interested in the Kinesis Advantage, I've bought from Ergo
> Canada (http://ergocanada.com/ec_home/products/alternative_layout_1.html
> ) several times: their prices are pretty good and their service is
> excellent.  (I have no financial interest in them, but I think very highly
> of them and given that they sell my favourite keyboard on the Canadian side
> of the border, I'm happy to advertise for them in the hope they survive ...)
>
> I'm always willing to rant about keyboards, it's a bit of a danger when
> I'm around.  I think they're a severely under-regarded peripheral.  You use
> it 8+ hours a day, and yet many people seem to think that a $5 commodity
> keyboard is a good idea?
>

I basically agree, though I am somewhat cost conscious, why for example at
my desk with the Microsoft Natural keyboard I sit in an IKEA Markus chair
rather than say a Herman Miller Aeron chair (see:
https://lifehacker.com/5941523/five-best-office-chairs ). In other words
I'm look for good, but not necessarily the best, at a don't blow the budget
price in office comfort...

Thanks.

Colin.

</end rant>
>
> --
> Giles
> https://www.gilesorr.com/
> gilesorr at gmail.com
>
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